ODST Mods

[UXB]

, I'm waiting on Dennis to help me find that post he made about the legalities and whatnot..

Sorry I couldn't find the actual post but this should help.



The subject of ownership of user made game assets has come up numerous times over the past several years and I have seen people misunderstand and misinterpret the intellectual property and copyrights laws just as they have in this thread.

The short version is that: You cannot copyright anything made for or from the Halo game, anything that looks or sound like Halo or anything that is derived from or related to the Halo story or game because Bungie/Microsoft already owns the copyright to that intellectual property. Because you can’t obtain a copyright for your user made creation you have no legal recourse to determine what can or cannot be done with the fan object you create. Without a legal recourse once you give it away it is essentially no longer yours. This means that you cannot own a fan made creation you can only possess it.

In my business as a web-developer and hosting company I handle other people’s intellectual property and copyrighted material and have retained legal counsel specifically for advice on copyright issues as they pertain to my business. They are the same law firm I consulted before starting the Halo Maps website and although I am not an expert on copyright laws I have enough understanding of the ones that pertain to user created content in the gaming industry to know that many if not most of you have a faulty understanding of the copyright issue and the resultant ramifications.

First off copyright laws are civil statutes and not criminal. That means unless some other criminal issue is involved you can’t be arrested, go to jail, or be prosecuted by the state for breaking the laws. However, you or your parents or guardian can be sued by the copyright holder for breach of contract in civil court which could be worst that jail time since it would cost you a lot of money.

A Copyright is the legal protection for unique or singular intellectual property and copyrights, contrary to popular belief, are not automatically granted to something you create. For full copyright protections the IP (intellectual property) must be registered. These laws are complex and full of grey areas and legal interpretations however it is black and white clear that you cannot obtain a copyright for something that is derived from or for an already existing copyrighted IP such as a video game and it’s story.

The allowed use, distribution or sale of a fan made creation from or for a copyrighted IP is at the sole discretion of the copyright holder and in the case of Halo is Bungie & Microsoft. The fact that they don’t stop or prevent the distribution of fan made creations of their IP does not mean they can’t. They in essence have all legal control over anything made for or from the Halo game and because they have that legal control they in essence own the rights to that object, regardless of who made it. This is what I mean by the statement that you can possess a fan made object that you crafted but you can’t own it. You can’t legally sell it, or make any legal claim on it or it’s disposition because you can’t obtain a copyright for it.

In summary: Once you distribute a map, tag or game asset for the Halo Game it is no longer yours to determine what people can do with it. They can copy it, dissect it, change it and use it and there is no legal recourse for you to stop them. The only people that can stop the use of a game asset is Bungie/Microsoft because they are the only ones that have any legal right to it because they own the copyright to the Halo story and game.

I know that many of you are saying that “I made this [Halo thing], it’s mine not Bungie's” and in essence it is only yours for as long as you keep it. You can’t copyright it so you can’t (legally) sell it or license someone to re-create it and you can’t determine what others can do with it. Now it is unlikely that Microsoft or Bungie are going to take it away but they can prevent you from distributing it and sue you if you do. So in all practical sense the fan made creation is not really yours to own even if you made it. You can only possess it.

I have also been asked about models and such that you create for the Halo game and the same principals hold true if the model was created that looks like existing copyrighted material in the Halo game or is specifically for the Halo game you cannot obtain a copyright for it. If you place any of your registered copyrighted models, such as a model of a food dispenser never found in the video game, into the Halo game the act of doing so surrenders your rights to that object and assigns them to the copyright holder of the video game in this case Microsoft & Bungie.

The simple fact is that you cannot retain any legal copyrights to previously registered copyrighted intellectual property or in this case anything made for or from the Halo game or story.


You can’t own this stuff people, you can play with it and you can possess it but beyond that... it is not yours.

[p0lar_bear]

I notice you mention "Halo Game" a bit there. Is that simply Halo: Combat Evolved and Halo: Custom Edition, or does that include the game's engine?

Example: let's say I make a fully original story, unrelated in any way, shape, or form to Halo. All characters, scenarios, and assets are created by me (or to be more realistic, my team), and I decide to use Blam for the game's engine. Again, this game concept is entirely detached from Halo, and does not refer to it in any way, including Easter Eggs. Even though my game concept is entirely unrelated to Bungie's IP, and the only thing my and Bungie's IPs have in common is the game engine, I'm still surrendering my rights to the IP to Microsoft and Bungie?

If this is the case, I would imagine this is also the same for mods made on other engines, and if you truly wanted to make a game where it is able to be legally yours, you would have to code your own engine.

Also, Inferno makes a point here: assets ripped from other engines are a complete and total legal mess.

[KiLLa]

I believe the point being made is, if it's Halo inspired then you don't "own" it, regardless of where it goes.
Also, if your content is ran through bungie/ms owned tools (guierlla sapien tool) it is no longer your property..because it's now part of a copyrighted engine..
So basically once your content is in tag format, you no longer hold the rights to the content..

[ShadowSpartan]

Also, if your content is ran through bungie/ms owned tools (guierlla sapien tool) it is no longer your property

What if, rather than using the normal HEK tools, you use tools that you have created yourself to compile the assets into the tag and map formats. Just because they are in the tag/map format, does that make them Bungie/Microsoft's property even though you haven't used their tools to create them? If that is the case, where does it state that the tag and map formats are Bungie/Microsoft's?

[p0lar_bear]

Legally, those tools shouldn't even exist.

[KiLLa]

plus your still using their file formats...and engine to use them..

[W1zard]

plus your still using their file formats...and engine to use them..

and that story can do deeper and deeper and eventually result in nonsense.

i predict that 10 pages ahead it'll say:

"so liek, if i r get deadpenalty for it, but i r vampire, it r not illegal since i r gotten deadpenalty amirite?"

At the end, we'll end up writing our own engine, like I do right now, since this stuff goes too deep and I'll never get satisfied anyways.

Unless you get all your stuff on black and white, all your base belongs to them.
Seriously, I wouldn't even want to go through all their "rules" because I'm modelling-happy and didn't take the effort to model my name into the model. <-- which is basically all you can do...

[ShadowSpartan]

Legally, those tools shouldn't even exist.

No modding tools should exist for that matter, but they do.

plus your still using their file formats...and engine to use them..

Where does it state the nobody else can use those file formats? Are they copyrighted?

[KiLLa]

uh obviously..since they're part of the engine..

[=sw=warlord]

uh obviously..since they're part of the engine..

.DDS is used in the Cryengine 2 for Crysis.
That would be a file format and since many games use said file format it would seem you are wrong.