A Look Behind the Scenes at H2V Programming

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Originally Posted by [EJ] Bean

I thought making the bsp have built in scenery as apposed to a scenery tag was supposed to cause uncessesary poly count and lag. Is it differne't with halo 2?

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In halo 2, its supposed to cause less lag.

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Originally Posted by Llama Juice

Instanced geometry > scenery

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Not always. Scenery can be damaged. The Covenant stationary shield generator is a perfect example.

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Originally Posted by flyinrooster

In halo 2, its supposed to cause less lag.

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That's true. H2 allows instancing, which means the same geometry is used over and over with different lighting, while being loaded only once.

Is instancing a speperate process, or just a word i'm unfamiliar with. Like I I made a chair in 3ds max, and destributed it across my level and then exported it would be considered instanced geometry, right?

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Originally Posted by spookers622

why dont we get bum's opinion on this? lol

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yea, that'd be an idea, but I'm wondering what well happen.

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Originally Posted by Nick

Microsoft is the publisher and that means Microsoft pays the bills. That means Microsoft gets to make the calls. Stop crying like a little bitch, really; you were promised a map editing toolset and you got a map editing toolset. Just because you can't have your way and make another crappy Zelda mod with stolen models (yeah, that's some blood and passion alright) doesn't mean that the editing kit is "bad" for the community - it gives us more Halo universe maps and for those that actually like Halo ... that is what we want.

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Stop crying like a little bitch every time I have a rant against microsoft. And the only thing that makes me cry is having to read your horrid defacement of simple logic.

They did promise a "map editor", but no where does that imply by all means of logic that it will be restricted to only BSP editing since the models, skybox, scenery, and even the vehicles and weapons are part of the "map" in the game. They promised they will provide tool, sapien, and guerilla for editing, like in HEK and no where saying 95% of it will be locked or removed. Most people's minimum expectations was to be at least able to do as they did in Halo CE prior to H2v's release, as it is a newer version of the game with a newer version of the engine. Who the hell expects that newer versions of software to have significantly less or more restricted features? Anyways, Im the first one who originally assumed the editing kit would be locked as it is now when the first few announcements of h2v having a map editor was made. My rant is not against them for not having it my way, it is against the reasoning behind why they did what they did.

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Originally Posted by Nick

Oh, you don't like Halo? Then don't buy the god damn game called Halo to prototype your rubbish ideas in. Go buy Half-Life 2 since Valve is your god; go use the Source engine to serve as a backend for your stolen concepts and content.

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No nicky boy, no where did I say I don't like halo. I love the game halo, and I respect bungie for their work as game developers. My ideas of how to innovate or improve the game to my own tastes by putting in other ideas and aspects into the game for my own enjoyment is my way of admiring the game for what it is. It doesn't bother me how much you may think my biped models, or vehicles added to the game is nothing but rubbish, I put them in to the game to add to it and give it more flavor to my own liking. Think of it as adding your own spices to one of your favorite foods. It doesn't mean you hate it. It doesn't mean you shouldn't eat it because it doesn't have that particular spice you want in it. Obviously you fail to understand what the meaning behind modding is and thats a shame coming from you of all people.

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Originally Posted by Nick

Why would Microsoft not want to "open up" Halo's engine for any type of content? Simply because it was not designed to be that type of engine. Engine production is expensive and the Halo engine has always been a targeted one; compared to the flexibility of the Source or Unreal engines, it is completely ill-suited to play host to different genres or even slightly modified gameplay (since all of the gameplay logic is hardcoded and is not extensible). Bungie, before they were purchased by Microsoft, made a business decision to create that type of engine as they were not going to be reselling it (like Valve, id, and Epic do); after being purchased, that decision was upheld.

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Thats bull. The engine is perfectly capable of allowing new models, animations, etc added to the game. None of that is hard coded into the game. Unreal and Source are somewhat open sourced which is why someone can completely create a completely different genre from the engine as what has been hard coded can be modified. That is no where comparable. Even with a full unlocked editing kit, no one could turn halo 2 into a RTS or MMORPG now could they? You failed to reason why they would intentionally restrict the editing from even allowing a damn custom tree scenery model or even a freaking new skybox to be put in game when it is 100% technically possible. Try again.

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Originally Posted by Nick

Now really, how about you just go to a community that "understands" you as a "modder" and leave this community the hell alone? You constantly say how much Microsoft sucks, how much the tools suck, how much Bungie is a sellout, how much this and how much that - so why surround yourself with it? Leave.

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I am part of many communities, even emulation. I'm here because, like kornman, I am working to develop tools for halo 2 editing as well as to find ways to create custom content for the game and to unfail what microsoft has done to the game for the community. Don't like it when customers complain? Leave the damn software industry, and leave this forum because its filled up to your eyeballs in disgruntled unsatisfied customers. Unlike microsoft, at least i'm trying to do something about what people are complaining about in h2v instead of just telling them to be grateful they got anything at all for their money.

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Originally Posted by jahrain

Stop crying like a little bitch every time I have a rant against microsoft. And the only thing that makes me cry is having to read your horrid defacement of simple logic.

They did promise a "map editor", but no where does that imply by all means of logic that it will be restricted to only BSP editing since the models, skybox, scenery, and even the vehicles and weapons are part of the "map" in the game. They promised they will provide tool, sapien, and guerilla for editing, like in HEK and no where saying 95% of it will be locked or removed. Most people's minimum expectations was to be at least able to do as they did in Halo CE prior to H2v's release, as it is a newer version of the game with a newer version of the engine. Who the hell expects that newer versions of software to have significantly less or more restricted features? Anyways, Im the first one who originally assumed the editing kit would be locked as it is now when the first few announcements of h2v having a map editor was made. My rant is not against them for not having it my way, it is against the reasoning behind why they did what they did.

No nicky boy, no where did I say I don't like halo. I love the game halo, and I respect bungie for their work as game developers. My ideas of how to innovate or improve the game to my own tastes by putting in other ideas and aspects into the game for my own enjoyment is my way of admiring the game for what it is. It doesn't bother me how much you may think my biped models, or vehicles added to the game is nothing but rubbish, I put them in to the game to add to it and give it more flavor to my own liking. Think of it as adding your own spices to one of your favorite foods. It doesn't mean you hate it. It doesn't mean you shouldn't eat it because it doesn't have that particular spice you want in it. Obviously you fail to understand what the meaning behind modding is and thats a shame coming from you of all people.


Thats bull. The engine is perfectly capable of allowing new models, animations, etc added to the game. None of that is hard coded into the game. Unreal and Source are somewhat open sourced which is why someone can completely create a completely different genre from the engine as what has been hard coded can be modified. That is no where comparable. Even with a full unlocked editing kit, no one could turn halo 2 into a RTS or MMORPG now could they? You failed to reason why they would intentionally restrict the editing from even allowing a damn custom tree scenery model or even a freaking skybox to be put in game when it is 100% technically possible. Try again.



I am part of many communities, even emulation. I'm here because, like kornman, I am working to develop tools for halo 2 editing as well as to find ways to create custom content for the game and to unfail what microsoft has done to the game for the community. Don't like it when customers complain? Leave the damn software industry, and leave this forum because its filled up to your eyeballs in disgruntled unsatisfied customers. Unlike microsoft, at least i'm trying to do something about what people are complaining about in h2v instead of just telling them to be grateful they got anything at all for their money.

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:shocked:

Jahrain's recent rants (that I've read) have all made a lot of sense to me. I think where Nick says, "take it or leave it, complainer," we're saying that okay isn't good enough. I really believe that gaming studios have a responsibility to their gamers if they want to be successful. Of course, they don't have to do jack shit if they don't want to, but sooner or later it's going to catch up to them. Very poor decisions were made on Microsoft's part, and if they want to repair their image, they need to repair the damage they've done first instead of shoving more BS done our throats.

People should calm down and think about how each other's rants/rebuttals relate to taking a look behind the scenes at H2V programming. I'm sure another thread would be suitable for that debate.

Do you guys get the problem where the body doesn't ragdoll if there is like more than 8 people? Because if you do, I would like the first thing to made for this is to make all the maps to the rag-doll thing with 16 people, that would be an awesome mod. Great Job Guys! Glad to see this finally hit H2V.

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Originally Posted by flyinrooster

Masterz? You got some 'splainin to do...

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*calls masterz*

TURN ON H2V NOW AND GIVE ME UR BETAAZ BEFORE I F33T HAXOR U OLOLK.:XD: