Will we ever get good map making tools like halo custom editions?

I wonder if we will ever have as great mapping tools as Halo CE. I really would love to be able to make new scenery weapons vehicles ect. Will microsoft ever release or "unlock" the full version? Will Kornman00 ever finish the tag extractor and be able to make a Full good version of the mapping kit for H2V?

We would be able to make even greater maps if they gave us the full mapping kit in the first place :/ ! Why didn't they make one like halo CE's in the first place!?


Can someone please answer these questions.

-Flames

Welcome to September 2007.

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Originally Posted by Flames

I wonder if we will ever have as great mapping tools as Halo CE. I really would love to be able to make new scenery weapons vehicles ect. Will microsoft ever release or "unlock" the full version? Will Kornman00 ever finish the tag extractor and be able to make a Full good version of the mapping kit for H2V?

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Whoa, slow down there.

Community-made tools rely on the community. Last I knew, Halo 2 Vista's community is pretty weak; there aren't a lot of people out there who are willing and eager to make time to work on tools for a game they see as dead on arrival.

Not to be mean, but if you'd REALLY like to see these tools released, research map cache file structure and tag file structure and get on it yourself. In addition for not wanting to work with a game they see as dead, making tools upon request for a "dead" game is something the community would want to do less.

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Originally Posted by Flames

Why didn't they make one like halo CE's in the first place!?

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Microsoft made the fatal mistake of trying to cater the tools to the "average user" when they should have made them for the "general developer." That, and it's pretty much a given that they didn't want people making maps and mods that would unlock achievements online easier than the normal gameplay (they might as well remove the Friends list from LIVE with that logic), plus they didn't want any copyright infringing content on their service (more bullshit; WE host the servers. LIVE only connects players to other players here.)

Their are more people playing Z_sanctuary_pb2 than people playing Sanctuary in Halo 2 Vista. That is why no one is developing for halo 2 vista. No one is playing it.

Last I remember Jahrain created that tool to actually make a render model. If he got that to work, what about Kornman's Hek? Could they work together.

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Originally Posted by KiDD

Last I remember Jahrain created that tool to actually make a render model. If he got that to work, what about Kornman's Hek? Could they work together.

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No, Jahrain is gone now. His last post was back in August, and the post before that one was back in March.

Did he ever tell anyone how the tool worked, could anyone replicate it?

If you mean the gbx-model-upgrader, yeah that works.. readme was included so you can make render-models. Korns guerilla can't open those tags though.

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Originally Posted by Vicky

If you mean the gbx-model-upgrader, yeah that works.. readme was included so you can make render-models. Korns guerilla can't open those tags though.

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He meant the process that Jahrain went though to turn the gbxmodel into a render model. He wanted to know if Jahrain told anyone about that.

Damnit, why the hell did they ruin this game.

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Originally Posted by KiDD

Damnit, why the hell did they ruin this game.

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The Game is dying to me. Halo 3 for PC would satisfy me.:party:

We all know Halo 3 pc is going to come to us, the real question is, will the Editing kit be like H2V's?

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Originally Posted by Ki11a_FTW

We all know Halo 3 pc is going to come to us, the real question is, will the Editing kit be like H2V's?

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A better question would be, will Halo 3 PC even include an editing kit.

if not, I'm out, Halo CE will be to old of an engine by then, ill probably move to something else

I still wanna see this one unlocked. I know it won't be, but I think that would be great.

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Originally Posted by Ki11a_FTW

if not, I'm out, Halo CE will be to old of an engine by then, ill probably move to something else

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Already is kinda, it runs like crap compared to engines these days, and there's so many hardcoded limitations.

But still, there's so much more that could be done with the H1 engine. I'd like to see more creative weapons, all I really see are weapons based on real-life weapons or other weapons in the Halo universe. I honestly can't believe I'm the only guy who attempted an accurate Shock Rifle.

I'd imagine people would be trying to convert Quake weapons, Marathon weapons, Doom weapons, all that crazy shit. There's so many posibilities of what you can do with projectiles. Have a projectile explode into another projectile, which releases a crap load of other projectiles. Shit like that, outside of the box.

Sorry for trailing off, just some thoughts, lolz

hes has a good point

Where's the news on H3-PC killa? (cant imagine they'd make the same mistake twice, either it has a fine working HEK (i hope) or none at all (hope not)).

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Originally Posted by Muki Hyena

I'd imagine people would be trying to convert Quake weapons, Marathon weapons, Doom weapons, all that crazy shit. There's so many posibilities of what you can do with projectiles. Have a projectile explode into another projectile, which releases a crap load of other projectiles. Shit like that, outside of the box.

Sorry for trailing off, just some thoughts, lolz

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The problem is that with the game's netcode, just trying to make creative weapons work online is hard, much less trying to aim them with spastic leading factored in.

I don't plan on releasing another HEK mod.

But that doesn't mean I'm not thinking about tools for H2V. I made a sound upgrader (from h1 to h2) a while back along with some model tools a while back. Just when I work on H2 stuff, I'm more aiming towards H2X, H2V has lower priority.

People are still modding H2X? That's a surprise... well not really being as H3 is locked down till we can resign live containers.

Well with halo 4 being handled by gearbox, I assume it will have a nice editing kit

lul

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Originally Posted by p0lar_bear

Community-made tools rely on the community. Last I knew, Halo 2 Vista's community is pretty weak;

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It's Stronger than you think, There have been alot of Halo 2 Modding/RealTimeHalo tools made, Some even released! But I don't think they ever came past here.

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Originally Posted by p0lar_bear

Not to be mean, but if you'd REALLY like to see these tools released, research map cache file structure and tag file structure and get on it yourself. In addition for not wanting to work with a game they see as dead, making tools upon request for a "dead" game is something the community would want to do less.

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Its been done by a few people already, most of them moved on to Halo 3 or back to Halo 2 Xbox. The only real people still working on any type of tools are me and grimdoomer.

My Meta Extractor from Memory Hacking (yes I said it to piss some of you off, because SOME of you dont see what good can be in it) Is 98% working. I also can extract and convert tags to be used in the "Locked" H2EK. Also many other people have fully "unlocked" the Guerilla but they are with kornman on this one.

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Originally Posted by kornman00

I don't plan on releasing another HEK mod.

But that doesn't mean I'm not thinking about tools for H2V......H2V has lower priority.

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I don't hang around this site much but it seems the few people left really want a good tool, sooner or later me/grimdoomer may come out with one.


If you guys are still like you used to me, Ill wait for my banhammer unenthused.

I hope some tools do come out sometime.

You all act like tools are the problem. The game is to broken for me to even bother. Even if it had a HEK like CE's, I still don't know if I could mod it.

What's the broken part of it? I don't think it is as bad as everyone portrays it to be.

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Originally Posted by Evil_Monkey

What's the broken part of it? I don't think it is as bad as everyone portrays it to be.

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The broken part is that we can't create any type of custom content for our maps. Like scenery, vehicles, weapons, bipeds, etc.

If tools were made/unlocked could that problem be resolved?

Wasn't CE like this in the beginning?

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Originally Posted by Evil_Monkey

If tools were made/unlocked could that problem be resolved?

Wasn't CE like this in the beginning?

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If somebody had the time and dedication to create the tools, then yes it could probably be resolved.

CE wasn't like this in the beginning, the tools had the ability to create custom content when they were released.

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Originally Posted by Evil_Monkey

What's the broken part of it? I don't think it is as bad as everyone portrays it to be.

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I'm talking about game stability, and the checksum of certain tags. Go reference a biped in the globals.globals tag that's from your own custom directory and watch what happens.

Also, the fact tool nulls over whatever tags of yours are wrong or missing makes it a bitch to debug, and the fact that almost every tag is referenced to the shared map files makes it much more tedious to mod. you want to change an explosion, you have to re-ref every tag your editing.

I tried to make a bumped cube map shader for a map and it turns out the cube map shader template doesn't actually work. It actually said my shader was invalid then said that the MC visor shader was invalid and then skipped the validation check for MC visor and let it slide while invalidating my shader.

Also if you've ever seen a map compile in H2V you can see how fucked there tags are. There are tons of errors in the tag set.

The only good thing of Halo 2 was how the AI could drive vehicles in a rather decent fashion, this went hand in hand with the game's strong scripting language.

Which unfortunately is disabled because we ain't allowed to have no damn SP tags.

Another problem exactly pointed above me, cannot mod single player.

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Originally Posted by supersniper

Another problem exactly pointed above me, cannot mod single player.

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If only we could, I would probably beef up the SMG a bit for Campaign use. Poor gun is so pitiful alone it makes me want to melee the entire time I go into matchmaking and it really needs to have moreof an effect on enemies. I would also make more elites dual-wield and other awesome stuff. So much wasted potential in this.....

Yeah. H2EK = Fail.

I was looking forward to the game so i COULD move my single player maps to that engine, but no, i install the EK and get this load of bullshit, worst thing i have ever witnessed when i installed something :saddowns:

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Originally Posted by Ki11a_FTW

I was looking forward to the game so i COULD move my single player maps to that engine, but no, i install the EK and get this load of bullshit, worst thing i have ever witnessed when i installed something :saddowns:

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Dude, I'm glad I didn't have Vista so I wasn't a victim to the pathetic hype (and lose $150 at the time). But by the sound of it, that's just as bad as installing Portal(Steam) for the first time (which took forever and was annoying).