A Look Behind the Scenes at H2V Programming

Probably the first and foremost accomplishment to begin H2V's extensive modding was kornman's unlocked Guerilla, which he was able to conjour in just a few days after release. With this program you can open, edit, or create any type of tag in the Halo 2 library.



His work allowed myself and other highly respected modders to access a number of important tags and their properties so that we could work on tools to unleash the full potential of Halo 2 modding.

This is a behind-the-scenes look at some of the work that has been done to date to achieve that goal.

One of the biggest complaints of Halo 2 Vista's Editing Kit was its lack of tags released with the game. Kornman's Guerilla Radio allows you to open any Single Player or Multiplayer map and extract the tags from it.

http://files.modacity.net/images/h2v...io_extract.jpg

You can also recursively extract the tags to additionally extract all of the tags that the tag you're extracting depends on.

http://files.modacity.net/images/h2v...radio_deps.jpg

http://files.modacity.net/images/h2v...brute_tags.jpg

This program also contains a number of built-in tools such as "Extract Import Info" - the ability to extract the import data from render, collision, and physics model to decompile them to their JMS format.

http://files.modacity.net/images/h2v...mport-info.jpg

This allows you access to all of the original source JMS files for any model you want.

http://files.modacity.net/images/h2v...ef_folders.jpg

http://files.modacity.net/images/h2v...render-jms.jpg

I've created a 3ds max script that allows you to import these JMS files so that you can look at how to create them or modify them for you own use. The JMS importer's current UI looks like this:

http://files.modacity.net/images/h2v...mporter_ui.jpg

It can currently fully import render and physics models, and it will support importing of collision models in the near future. Today I would like to show off the physics importer, because everyone already knows the the render models of the characters look like.

To run the script you open up the JMS file extracted with kornman's tool.

http://files.modacity.net/images/h2v...agdoll-jms.jpg

It creates the 3ds max scene with the nodes and rigid bodies defined by the tag. It also sets up all of the constraints, such as ragdoll and hinge constraints, which defines how the physics model interacts.

http://files.modacity.net/images/h2v...sics-model.jpg

You can also use 3ds max's built-in Havok plugin to simulate the cyborg's physics and test it out.

http://files.modacity.net/images/h2v/secret/havok.jpg

You can view a short video of this here.

Currently exporters are in the works so that we can put our own models with custom collision and custom physics into the game.

Thanks for reading! Look forward to the release of some of this stuff.

Well done to Kornman, and to you ghost for that script. :)

Lol, ragdoll; neat.

:D Is all I can say :P

Good work!

I love you guys :D

^^ Will you be my firend?

Awsome. Now all we need is imported sounds and animations.

wait Nvm...

AWSOME WORK KORN MAN

An awesome achievement, congrats guys.

Thank You Kornmann, I need this big time.

Great job you guys :awesome:

You need a medal or trophy of some sort.

Oh, wow, but what are we going to do when xbox live finds out about this?

Halo 2Vista has nothing to do with Xbox live, its just Live, and who cares, its only for custom map making.

When they find out, we will take a shit in their face ;d

Seriously, what did they expect was going to happen? =p

Very nice, though have you guys talked about scripting? From looking at the hex it's almost exactly the same as Halo 2 xbox's compiled format iirc.

great work guys :)

Currently importing new physics models is already done. Everything else is currently still in the works. Animations may require some tools that are not as straight forward as a import command you give tool.
He is using an out dated h2gr, and don't expect that version to be the one you guys get to use, the release on will be ALOT different and not just based on tag extracting ;p

edit: as far as scripting is concerned, don't worry about it ;).

That's some crazy crap right there. I can't wait to see what you guys are capable of in the future.

Think you guys could make a tag extracting plugin for the HEK+?

It has some potential for great plugins and to be a center for modding/content creation, but nobody wants to make stuff for it. People only see it for the CE tag extractor.

does that convert to xbox button work

Only for those who don't touch themselves at night.

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Originally Posted by p0lar_bear

Think you guys could make a tag extracting plugin for the HEK+?

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No, extraction is done in a entirely different manner than how HEK+ does. I use my own code library which then H2GR depends on. I'm not here to promote someone else's tool.
The tool you guys will be using WON'T be JUST for tag extracting (its not even going to be H2GR), its only one of its perks.

Awesome progress. I'm rooting for you guys. Are you working with the Prometheus team? It seems you're working towards similar goals.

Prometheus who?

-Nick

Haha. Nice one, Korn.

Great job you two. I believe you are an inspiration to our community.

And from what you have stated, Ghost, about this toolset for highly respected map creators... Does that mean you guys are gearing to make this program not as simple as what most billboards and brochures are in our society today? (6th grade english/math skills) Because I would really enjoy to see a program use words that are geared towards a more intelligent crowd.

If not... then I will be glad to just see you guys get whatever program that will release, released. Once again, you two are doing an extraordinary job.

Fantastic work! Its good to see such progress after such a short amount of time.

very nice :)

Uh... godly? Haha, make your own game using Halo 2' engine. That would be coo.

Aww, man. I want those apps so badly it hurts. Keep up the great work, guys!

I love to see talented people work together like this.

this may sound kind of stupid, but it's just alittle bit of thought I want to figer out. Can we have more then 1 biped models per biped? like in CMT's first MP map release with WOL's spartan model, the Hi res skined Halo 1 sparten, and the crapy Halo wars spartan model? can we do something like that?

The answer to that is a definate:
Maybe

ok, if we could do some like that, Con could make Halo 3 spartans and elites for his map, that'd be cool.

or spartans with new armor instead of elites :D

Amazing. Simply amazing. It's great to know that we can finally do what was possible with the original HEK and more. Especially useful for the non-ordinary noobs like myself.

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Originally Posted by Kornman00

I'm not here to promote someone else's tool.

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Originally Posted by Kornman00

Prometheus who?

-Nick

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This calls for a sexy party!
http://faqsmedia.ign.com/faqs/image/...rty_stewie.jpg

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Originally Posted by [EJ] Bean

Amazing. Simply amazing. It's great to know that we can finally do what was possible with the original HEK and more. Especially useful for the non-ordinary noobs like myself.

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We still need to get around having to use shared.map to load weapons, bipeds, animations, etc. D:

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Originally Posted by flyinrooster

We still need to get around having to use shared.map to load weapons, bipeds, animations, etc. D:

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Well, it'd be as simple as extracing everything from the shared.map and compiling your own. :P

Then, you just distribute your own after you've figured out how to work around the default one.

At least I've come to believe so.

i cant wait!! when do you think it'll be done? And isnty this illegal? cant they ban you or something or do they even care? anyway, good work!!

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Originally Posted by dg

I love to see talented people work together like this.

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Couldnt have said it better myself.


Good job guys, your bettering the community.

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Originally Posted by et_cg

Well, it'd be as simple as extracing everything from the shared.map and compiling your own. :P

Then, you just distribute your own after you've figured out how to work around the default one.

At least I've come to believe so.

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See, that makes sense until you think about Live. If you change the biped, how is that going to react with the ability to select your own? What about weapons? I am perfectly fine with the fact that my map probably won't allow for achievements if I do implement custom content, I just have to wonder how it will all play out.

Also, sorry for thread jacking D:

Good job, again =D.

There is no need to modify anything in the shared.map in order to use custom weapons, or bipeds.

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Originally Posted by spookers622

i cant wait!! 1) when do you think it'll be done? And 2) isnty this illegal? cant they ban you or something or do they even care? anyway, good work!!

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1) It will never be "done", done is a term used when talking about cooking. However, when it's finished it will be released. Am I Right?

2) As long as the custom maps don't give anyone an advantage over anyone else, I really don't think they will give a shit. Unless it's about copyright infringement or some shit like that.

You guys are the best halo modders period.

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Originally Posted by fatso784

You guys are the best halo modders period.

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Thats an understatement compared to what I've seen these people accomplish.

Thank you so much guys. Now i dont have to use unreal engine.

hmm... I don't know what to say.. The GUI sucks for one and so does the name and whos this kornman guy?

Wow. Are you a halmods user or what? Anthony, get the hell off of these great boards.

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Originally Posted by flyinrooster

See, that makes sense until you think about Live.

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Why use Live? It sucks.

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Originally Posted by jahrain

There is no need to modify anything in the shared.map in order to use custom weapons, or bipeds.

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Good point. The map files still compile everything that they need. Except for the for surely shared tags.

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Originally Posted by Wave of Lag

Wow. Are you a halmods user or what? Anthony, get the hell off of these great boards.

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Seconded. Get the fuck off.

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Originally Posted by Anthony

hmm... I don't know what to say.. The GUI sucks for oneand so does the name

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The magic words are "Work in Progress".

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Originally Posted by Anthony

and whos this kornman guy?

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and whos this anthony guy?

I hope to god this is an alt.

Hahaha, false alarm guyz! CAD tells me this guy is korns friend.

CALL OFF TEH AIRSTRIKEZ.

Sorry bout that.

I think the GUI for the whole program needs alittle bit of a a tune up, like maybe a way to change the color of it to match with the vista theme. just an idea. but I'm going to have some fun with this, if only I could mod some of the SP maps.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stealth

I think the GUI for the whole program needs alittle bit of a a tune up, like maybe a way to change the color of it to match with the vista theme. just an idea. but I'm going to have some fun with this, if only I could mod some of the SP maps.

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Uhm, stealth, that program you see there is not going to be the one they hand out to us. They've mentioned that a couple times, just to clear it up a bit for you. So I'm sure the final program will be nothing short of awesomesauce.

Yeah, the GUI is dark like that because I hate staring at bright colors all day long when I'm testing something over and over again in the dark. The people who have seen the color set I use for my code editors have thought it is but ugly, but it works wonders on the eyes, and after a few days you learn to love it ;p.

ohai ant

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Originally Posted by Kornman00

Yeah, the GUI is dark like that because I hate staring at bright colors all day long when I'm testing something over and over again in the dark. The people who have seen the color set I use for my code editors have thought it is but ugly, but it works wonders on the eyes, and after a few days you learn to love it ;p.

ohai ant

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I hear that, darker colors are better on one's eye's when looking at screens for long periods of time.

What do you guys have planned as far as the checksums in some of the tags? No globals editing make me sad.

Nice! That's one big step for h2v moders:D

didnt microsoft make it like illegal to modify the h2vista tools or something?

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Originally Posted by someone

Nice! That's one big step for h2v moders:D

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This tool is not meant for modders, it's meant for people who want to create content for the game. Modding is just utterly... dumb. :/

...
I am not worthy.

Thank you guys so much. I knew you guys would come through. Now I know without a doubt that I'll be able to do Bridge CE for H2V- wait, I still need a Sapien that can edit SP and place AI and compile scripts and such. I'm not gonna nag you guys to do this for me, but do you think it's possible?

Um, wow. Just wow.

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Originally Posted by spookers622

didnt microsoft make it like illegal to modify the h2vista tools or something?

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Then nothing good for H2V would be made.

Original custom weapons, ect.

it's just microsoft. who cares.

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Originally Posted by Tweek

it's just microsoft. who cares.

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Hmm lets see. Say if it were illegal, and you were the one opening up the tools. Then Microsoft got wind of you and told you to shut down.

What would you do?

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Originally Posted by Freelancer

Hmm lets see. Say if it were illegal, and you were the one opening up the tools. Then Microsoft got wind of you and told you to shut down.

What would you do?

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We rebel! Screw them.

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Originally Posted by Freelancer

Hmm lets see. Say if it were illegal, and you were the one opening up the tools. Then Microsoft got wind of you and told you to shut down.

What would you do?

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Not our fault their trying to turn the PC into an Xbox and enforcing inane rules upon us

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Originally Posted by jahrain

We rebel! Screw them.

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I'm with that dude that makes other nifty apps too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Freelancer

Hmm lets see. Say if it were illegal, and you were the one opening up the tools. Then Microsoft got wind of you and told you to shut down.

What would you do?

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Run and hide in a hole and hide from microsoft's assassins? :lol:

Anyways looking cool guys can't wait for these apps.

I would love to see how bad H2v live would fail at keeping us from doing mods like this.

We can still use VPN software if M$ ban people that use unlocked versions of H2Guerilla. I dont see any harm if some of us who keep the game fair and keep within the halo style but use unlocked software so we can make new crates, scenery, whatever to make the lv better and possibly make the lv run faster on older computers. It sucks we have to put objects into the BSP, instance is good but I want to make new crates that move.

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Originally Posted by Warningshot3

We can still use VPN software if M$ ban people that use unlocked versions of H2Guerilla. I dont see any harm if some of us who keep the game fair and keep within the halo style but use unlocked software so we can make new crates, scenery, whatever to make the lv better and possibly make the lv run faster on older computers. It sucks we have to put objects into the BSP, instance is good but I want to make new crates that move.

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It's stated in hundreds of places all over your computer that it's harmful. You could go to prison if you don't pay reparations.

Basically, what's happening, and what will be happening is illegal. We're taking their intellectual property that was offered to us AS IS, with the acceptance that we do not modify this AS IS software.

If we do, they may come to us with a hand out for cash/telling us to shut down.

when they come for me, that hand better already have that cash in it, and their mouth like http://sa.tweek.us/emots/images/emot-aaaaa.gif.

all I can say is I hope bungie and ms are smart enough to leave this stuff alone... this is the kind of stuff I was expecting to be included with halo 2 vista.. not the kit they gave us tbh.

Anyway... :eek: you guys own.

:cool:

maybe there is hope for me in upgrading my pc to vista and buying h2v after all.

Though this is halo 2 vista, how is this different from the halo ce modifications to guerrilla and other HEK programs?

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Originally Posted by [EJ] Bean

Though this is halo 2 vista, how is this different from the halo ce modifications to guerrilla and other HEK programs?

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Because in the days of CE, they weren't deliberately trying to halt progress.

But there were locked parts. Those weren't deleberately locked?

Not to the extent that they are now.

Also, I understand weapons, but how, again, are we going to get bipeds to work since we cannot edit the globals tag?

And for all who do not know, the globals tag you are provided with has a certain checksum. If you modify it in ANYWAY the checksum changes and your maps will no longer work (I'm not sure exactly what happens... ask masterz =p).

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Originally Posted by [EJ] Bean

But there were locked parts. Those weren't deleberately locked?

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The locked out parts were locked simply because they were extraneous or useless. You can't use a .unit tag as far as I'm concerned.

The CE editing kit came with the ability to create a completely custom map. You could have easily tossed everything aside (save for the ui folder, widget definitions were locked :-3), and built a whole new concept from the ground up.

The Halo 2 Vista Map Editor only has the ability to create a custom Halo 2 map. No more, and much less.

Sex?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by [EJ] Bean

But there were locked parts. Those weren't deleberately locked?

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Everything except tag_collection, and the ui_widiget_* tag groups where as-is the same bungie used. The fields were locked because alot of them weren't suppose to be edited because it went against how HALO was suppose to run, or they were fields only suppose to be maintained by a programmer. Those 3 tags mentioned where purposely locked out from public use.

I just removed the distance and falling damage effects from my globals tag and the map built just fine. Game could see it as well. And yes, I did play the map ;p

fucking awesome :D

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Originally Posted by Kornman00

I just removed the distance and falling damage effects from my globals tag and the map built just fine. Game could see it as well. And yes, I did play the map ;p

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<3 Korn

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kornman00

I just removed the distance and falling damage effects from my globals tag and the map built just fine. Game could see it as well. And yes, I did play the map ;p

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Masterz? You got some 'splainin to do...

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Originally Posted by flyinrooster

Masterz? You got some 'splainin to do...

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More learnin' perhaps?

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Originally Posted by flyinrooster

Masterz? You got some 'splainin to do...

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It might be my biped tag that caused the map not to be detected. Also, don't forget I don't use Kornmans Guerilla, so it might be a problem with the editor rather than me. I told kornman I woul investigate once I get my new pc. If I load h2 at high res on this machine, the whole thing goes nuts on me.

I just finished adding a utility that creates a tag database from a given tag (will walk its dependency graph). Well, it creates two rather. The first database lists the source tag and all of its references (and then the reference's references, then then theirs, etc etc), the second database lists each tag that had erroneous dependencies (either missing from the tag set, skipped by the database construction, or for some reason failed to load), along with what those dependencies were.
When you extract a tag, it will also create a database with all of the extracted tags.

Besides auto-generating tag archives of a specific tag, I had another idea for usage of these tag databases (which I can really beef up with extra info, but currently I'm only going off the same database format bungie uses). Just not sure if I really want to spend the time implementing the idea as its a type of coding I have never even touched on before :/...

It wouldn't be trivial to get this working for Halo 1 stuff either, since my code library includes everything I need to interface with them too, and the systems are designed to work without hardly any game dependent data. I know people would kill for some of the utilities I've got setup for Halo 2, to work with Halo 1. We'll see how things turn out

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Masterz1337

It might be my biped tag that caused the map not to be detected. Also, don't forget I don't use Kornmans Guerilla, so it might be a problem with the editor rather than me. I told kornman I woul investigate once I get my new pc. If I load h2 at high res on this machine, the whole thing goes nuts on me.

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Thanks for explaining. =p

Also, :awesome:

Wow, This is really gonna help

:awesome:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kornman00

I just removed the distance and falling damage effects from my globals tag and the map built just fine. Game could see it as well. And yes, I did play the map ;p

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It's so funny that people are amazed that worked, isn't it kornman?

On a slightly related note, I still find it funny that people condemn Microsoft for locking down the HEK. They told you that you would be able to create new maps with the HEK and you can create new maps with the HEK; you were never promised the full functionality of the first (rushed) HEK. They did it because they wanted maps to remain in the Halo universe, because with Halo 1 most people spent their time making non-Halo maps. I think they made the right choice, from their point of view, in locking down the HEK.

Nick

OMFG GAWD NICK, YOU R STUPID. Your post is stupid. These forums are stupid. Halo is stupid. Gawd <:maddowns:>

-Nick

OH NO NOW I AM CRY :( :(: (

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It's so funny that people are amazed that worked, isn't it kornman?

On a slightly related note, I still find it funny that people condemn Microsoft for locking down the HEK. They told you that you would be able to create new maps with the HEK and you can create new maps with the HEK; you were never promised the full functionality of the first (rushed) HEK. They did it because they wanted maps to remain in the Halo universe, because with Halo 1 most people spent their time making non-Halo maps. I think they made the right choice, from their point of view, in locking down the HEK.

Nick

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Personaly I know that alot of my maps are not going to be in the halo universe. I'm still considering the gameplay tactics and abilites of halo's 2 rednering engine, so if that's their reason for locking it down it wasn't worth it.

To them, it was worth it. They are not giving out a free engine to be used for whatever game ideas you may want to explore - they don't want you to prototype your game ideas on their dime. What they do want is you to make new content for their game that will make sense in the scope of their game, especially now that all kinds of people will be getting your map automatically if it is on a public server.

I'm not arguing that it's good or that it is right. What I am saying is that they did make the right business choice and that's what games are - a business. Additionally, no one was "lied to" about the abilities of the HEK; they said you could make new maps and you can make new maps. I'm just laying out some facts, that's all; there are no opinions to disagree with.

Nick

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Originally Posted by Nick

OH NO NOW I AM CRY :( :(: (

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Wow, a post without his sign off. That's a first for me.

Nick

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Originally Posted by et_cg

Wow, a post without his sign off. That's a first for me.

Nick

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Yep. It's standard practice actually; I never sign off on posts of intentional absurdity. You should check the interwebs for confirmation.

Nick

P.S. Don't sign your posts as if you're me. I'll have you banned for imitation!

Absurditys really don't need an identity, do they?

You can ban me... from life, I guess. It's the last thing I have left.

Lee