Cerebrum Halo CE Game Tracking

STATUS REPORT: Updates on hold. Project is not canceled, but the main component is heavily dependent on Kornman's free time (and he doesn't have much).


Cerebrum and Synapse

Cerebrum-Synapse is an in-development system for tracking game stats. It was originally started for H2V, but for obvious reasons we stopped. So we're starting it back up again, almost two years later, for CE.

Cerebrum takes data from specially equipped servers running a system called Synapse (an extension to Open Sauce) which generates an XML dump of all sorts of useful game information and uploads it to the Cerebrum server. The server then processes the data and puts it in a MySQL database. From there, the Cerebrum web interface provides players with complete details on their games, including kills, flag caps, time in the hill, and even player-vs-player details (who killed who).

There is much to do to get Cerebrum-Synapse up and running. The first step is to get our game recording system into Open Sauce for dedicated servers. Once that is in place, the real development of Cerebrum can begin. Cerebrum will store massive amounts of data in a MySQL database here at Modacity.

Features

- Game summaries: including all the regular stats listed in the Postgame Carnage Report as well as Player vs. Player. Our tracking system will be able to provide clear information on who killed who, what weapon they used, and where both players were. It even supports custom weapons.
- Player profiles: Your profile is attached to the MD5 hash of your pseudo-CD-key, which ensures integrity of profiles. You'll be able to see all the Synapse-monitored games you've played in, keep track of your total kills, and even see who you've killed the most.
- Dynamic signatures: Like with the many third-party extensions to the H2/H3 stat systems, we'll provide dynamic signature images with all sorts of goodies, like your total kills, k/d ratio, player color, etc.
- Various stats: We'll provide statistics on specific maps - who's the best on Coldsnap? what's the most popular game type on Bloodgulch these days? what maps are played the most? - to keep you in the loop.
- Global banlist: Synapse will provide servers with a global list of banned players. The ban-list is mandatory for server administrators, but is highly exclusive to those players deemed unfit for the game.
- Medals and Achievements: Bring Halo CE into the same action as Halo 2 and 3 with medals (per-game) and achievements (overall).
- Ranking System: What's the point of all this tracking if we can't put it to good use with a global ranking and rating system? Accumulate points for kills and caps and move up the ranks to General.
- Killzone Heatmaps: What's the most popular spot to get your ass handed to you on Sidewinder? Find out with our dynamically generate heatmaps.

FAQs

Can I see what this thing looks like?
My original implementation/prototype of Cerebrum is available here. jcap may wish to post his for reference, as we'll be starting with it (it just looks better). The new prototype is available here. Update: The early gameviewer prototype is also up, though it lacks the features of the completed system.

What can I do to help right now?
Start taking thumbnail shots of your favorite maps. We can't live with the ones on HaloMaps, after all.

We'll also need pretty graphics for Cerebrum, so if you're good with that sort of thing, feel free to contribute. Specifically, we'll be looking for weapon side views like what's shown for H3, medal graphics, achievement graphics, etc.

If you're good with web design or development, or you have access to rec0's source code, you can join the development team and make Cerebrum or Synapse a reality now.

Will Cerebrum have X Feature?
See above. If it's not listed, maybe we don't know about it. I haven't started making a list of things we won't do.

Can I use Synapse with my server?
When the system is up and running, anyone will be able to use Synapse on their server, but you will have to register the server and some credentials with Cerebrum. We will track what servers are submitting what data and games may be revoked if tampering is found.

So when can we get it?
When it's done. At this point, it's barely even started. We'll keep you updated. Heck, if you're a regular here at Modacity you may get a chance to beta the system. Beta testing will be done on public dedicated servers.

How will I link my CD key to my personal account?
When Cerebrum-Synapse is read to go, you will link your CD key (through our extensively researched [not yet finished] CD Key hashing system) to your Modacity account. Don't have a Modacity account? Registered today!

What are Medals? I've never played H2 or H3!
You should play them... just don't play H2V... horrible, horrible game... Anyway, medals are awards for special kills you get in game. The most basic medals are for double kills and killing sprees. Other medals can be awarded for sprees with certain weapons, sticking your opponent, and more. Some of these more advanced medals will require Open Sauce, but the simplest ones will be done through any Synapse-equipped server extension.

Will there be a ranking system like in Halo 2 and Halo 3?
We will have a ranking and rating system in Cerebrum, but it will not follow the Halo 2/Halo 3 model. Our ranking system will be like that used in Call of Duty: kills and flag captures on any server will earn you points. At predetermined point levels, you will advance to the next rank.

Will I be able to track my entire clan as a single group?
Clans and league teams can be tracked with the Clan Management page, but this is a "Stage 2" addition.

Is the global banlist mandatory to use Synapse?
Yes. The banlist consists of known, proven and tried* botters and excessive TKers. Allowing them in games forces us to void those games because their presence destroys scoring and can have a massive effect on gameplay. Voiding these games destroys the experience for legitimate players by ruining any game stats they had accumulated before the banned player joined.
* Players on the global banlist are the worst of the worst, proven multiple times to be botters and presented to us on open channels with clear proof. All players on the list will have a chance for an appeal in an open forum.

Oh no, I'm really good at CE, you're going to ban me because of my awesome stats!
Never! The banning process does not look at statistics except when banning TKers (because our stats dumps clearly show how betrayals play out). Rest assured, you won't be banned for having exceptional stats: only real, verifiable proof of botting will get you the hammer.

I see you've started using a logo, is that the final logo for the project?
Yes sir. Well... sort of. It's the basic shape. We're exploring further options in its presentation, including (among other things) a change in color scheme.

Who are you guys?
The primary developers of the system are myself, jcap and kornman00. I started mapping for back in '06, but my true calling is programming. I'm not too sure what jcap does, but he's an administrator here at Modacity and has definitely helped make this project a reality, even if it's not done yet. And kornman00 is god. That should do for biographies.

This is awesome, I should +rep you and Jcap!
Yes, yes, you should.

I'm from bungie, we're stealing your idea to get more people to buy an old, unsupported game for ~$9.
I highly doubt that. Honestly, if someone from bungie is reading this, they should email me. I can be a very sociable person when properly confronted, and I don't make any demands concerning futuristic body coverings and bullet deflectors.

Where else has this been posted so I can bump it for you?
HaloMaps
ModNexus
Open Carnage
Rework3d
You can also follow us on Twitter.

Development Phases

There are three key phases in the development of Cerebrum-Synapse. We are already well into "Phase 0", which is our designation for the minimal-feature test system that is being used to record statistics on the HCEL tournament games. Phase 1 is the primary release, and Phase 2 will bring various extra low-priority features we thought would be cool.

Phase 0:
__ - ✔ Basic statistics tracking
__ - ✔ Basic game dumper
__ - ✔ Manual game uploads
Phase 1:
__ - Complete kill/death tracking
__ - ✔ Automatic, X secure uploads
____ Public Beta Test
__ - Medals and achievements
__ - Ban list
Phase 2:
__ - Rankings and ratings system finalized
__ - Scheduled delivery of Medal Overlay and live statistics
__ - Minor features by request

For anyone who feels like jumping on board with this, I still have our secret development forum which has been deserted for the past year with all its threads and posts. Ideas and concepts were in there.

I also still have the entire frontend for Cerebrum, thankfully. It's basically a more polished version of his prototype (it's based off of an old version of mine).

The project had to be abandoned mostly because of H2V. The game was broken and it couldn't dump stats correctly, and the game just slipped through the cracks because of the dropped support after a mere 11 months.

At the VERY LEAST, I would like to see just postgame data and possibly a service record/cumulative player stats.

Yours looked so much nicer because I never put any effort into the CSS on mine... >_<
Move the board over to be a subforum of CE and we can get this started.

e: Or you can sticky this. That works, too. Yay me, I have a sticky!

Uh this'd be cool if you could add a group of profiles to a list that you could then monitor from then on.

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Originally Posted by Malloy

Uh this'd be cool if you could add a group of profiles to a list that you could then monitor from then on.

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Like a friends list? It's all easily possible. We just need to lay the framework first. We can do a lot of fun things afterwords.
e: If you mean your own profiles, they'll be done by CD key, so all of your profiles will appear together, regardless of what name you use. We'll also be doing signature images and such, as you'd expect.

Awsome, definitely add filters so I dont have to look at non careables stats, thanks :D

I'm going to bump the original content of my OP to the bottom and write up a more CE-specific overview of what Cerebrum is...

Will heatmaps be implented?That could be pretty cool

Edit..Nvm i reread the bold :P Tired-.-

KD spread please

Synapse is basically the main communication part of this system. Cerebrum is the main database and frontend for stats.

Also, Synapse will be able to communicate back and fourth between the Cerebrum and the dedicated game server. This is how a global banlist will be accomplished. If a person is found to be cheating, their cd-key hash will be banned from ALL stats and ALL servers collecting stats.

Updated OP. I added some FAQs and put the global ban list in the features list.

I'm worried about privacy. What about it? Tell me your thoughts on the subject and how you program will work to deal with it.

Also, I think you can scrap the plan for a global ban list, I can see this being abused by some server admins, and its impossible to cheat in halo today anyhow(apart from Tkers, and c4 switching).

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Originally Posted by FreedomFighter7

I'm worried about privacy. What about it? Tell me your thoughts on the subject and how you program will work to deal with it.

Also, I think you can scrap the plan for a global ban list, I can see this being abused by some server admins, and its impossible to cheat in halo today anyhow(apart from Tkers, and c4 switching).

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What concerns do you have?
No personal information will be associated with your account except the (non-reversible) hash of your CD key, which will only be available to us as the Cerebrum managers and to Synapse servers (which already have that information). All other information is fairly generic and non-revealing.

The global banlist will be moderated and voted on, and there will be a place, most likely here, to post appeals. There are still a number of botting apps out there, and nothing is perfect at preventing their use.

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Originally Posted by FreedomFighter7

I'm worried about privacy. What about it? Tell me your thoughts on the subject and how you program will work to deal with it.

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Oh no, people can see how bad I am at halo :( :( :(

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Originally Posted by FreedomFighter7

and its impossible to cheat in halo today anyhow(apart from Tkers, and c4 switching).

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Funny, last I looked, blue arrow, the aimbot, and all that stuff works fine :X

Not good at web stuff, but I'm interested in helping on the software development and pulling stats side of things.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FreedomFighter7

I'm worried about privacy. What about it? Tell me your thoughts on the subject and how you program will work to deal with it.

Also, I think you can scrap the plan for a global ban list, I can see this being abused by some server admins, and its impossible to cheat in halo today anyhow(apart from Tkers, and c4 switching).

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I'm not sure of your concern is of regarding privacy. There is no information communicated or stored that the server operator wouldn't already have. You cd-key hash is a unique MD5 of your key to identify you across multiple accounts, so your stats can stay constant, regardless of the alias you play on.

The global banlist is controlled by us. We will ultimately decide who will be added, and the decisions would be based on solid proof. All aimbotters will be banned by default. Repeated teamkillers might be an option or it could be a default ban. If it were to be more advanced, EXCESSIVE teamkillers would be banned from servers for an amount of time before being permananetly banned, like with the Xbox LIVE service. But that would require constant maintenance. But then whose saying that we can't have staff to handle that?

This is probably impossible but like could you possibly get screenshots from ingame via this app?

So like once the heatmap generator is complete, at the time and place of the 'heat' of battle a screenshot is taken as a virtual memorabilia token :P

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Originally Posted by Malloy

This is probably impossible but like could you possibly get screenshots from ingame via this app?

So like once the heatmap generator is complete, at the time and place of the 'heat' of battle a screenshot is taken as a virtual memorabilia token :P

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Clients would need to take the screenshots. We could distribute a client app, but I don't think we'd get too many people.

Server could also take the screen shot, but nothing trivial. Just have to render the scene and get a copy of the back buffer using the clients camera orientation or whatever angle you want really. (Think of how sight jacking works). I disagree with the idea though.

Im all for it would be win. gives you an insight on your friends game :P

Idea sounds very promising. How much of the data harvesting have you got sorted? I'd gladly help on the software development side if you need help.

I started working on some thing similar but very basic ages ago with Keihatsu for Halo PC.

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Originally Posted by FreedomFighter7

its impossible to cheat in halo today anyhow(apart from Tkers, and c4 switching).

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You have no idea what your talking about.

fuck, I'd appreciate a Halo 1 stat collector slightly more than H2 because the post game carnage report tells you the headshots and everything, if they had that for Halo 1 that'd be sick.

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Originally Posted by Malloy

fuck, I'd appreciate a Halo 1 stat collector slightly more than H2 because the post game carnage report tells you the headshots and everything, if they had that for Halo 1 that'd be sick.

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We can't really detect headshots to my knowledge. OS might be able to, I don't really know.

Anyway, just went poking around the H3 Career Stats page. I figure, we can copy all of that if we implement medals and what not. At the very least, we can get double kills and triple kills, et al. because you can just look at the timing on that (same for sprees).

To register a simpler user account name with your CD key, we'll have you join a specific server (one of ours) and enter a short code to show that you're there to verify an account. Since the the server can be trusted, we can see that you're using a certain CD key and you'll be good to go. (If you don't know your hash, play a game, then look it up on Cerebrum).

Cerebrum you say?
http://twatgeek.com/geekfeed/wp-cont...2009/05/a5.jpg

Make it so.
http://subrevolt.com/phpnuke/images/...ges/picard.jpg

alternative pages to view data by teams, and in comparison to other teams, distinguishing stats by the private/public state of the server. so teams can say (and see for themselves), 'hey look, we're better than you on hangem CTF, we've got a 80% win record'. team pages should be either autogenerated based by [tag], or otherwise permit teams to make and regulate their own team pages.

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Originally Posted by Flare

alternative pages to view data by teams, and in comparison to other teams, distinguishing stats by the private/public state of the server. so teams can say (and see for themselves), 'hey look, we're better than you on hangem CTF, we've got a 80% win record'. team pages should be either autogenerated based by [tag], or otherwise permit teams to make and regulate their own team pages.

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By teams, do you mean clans?

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Originally Posted by Flare

alternative pages to view data by teams, and in comparison to other teams, distinguishing stats by the private/public state of the server. so teams can say (and see for themselves), 'hey look, we're better than you on hangem CTF, we've got a 80% win record'. team pages should be either autogenerated based by [tag], or otherwise permit teams to make and regulate their own team pages.

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What stops someone from making a tag, playing like shit, just to grief another clan and drop their stats?

Doing clans would be an extremely complex and very last thing. There would need to be an actual public backend to it where someone can register a clan and its members.

Really, I don't think clan management is all that important. That's what Xfire's for. Maybe we can collect stats of top clans.

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Originally Posted by PlasbianX

What stops someone from making a tag, playing like shit, just to grief another clan and drop their stats?

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It would be recorded by CD hash. Although I agree clan data isnt necessary I think it should focus on individual players.

Lets say that someone made a server with no score limit or time limit. Would this app let the server recognize you if you rejoined the server, then give you your score from last time you were on the server?

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Originally Posted by sdavis117

Lets say that someone made a server with no score limit or time limit. Would this app let the server recognize you if you rejoined the server, then give you your score from last time you were on the server?

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That would be the job of the server extension. You should request that for rec0.

Clans are purely a Cerebrum thing, and would be fairly simple to implement, but yes, they're an after though, not a primary feature.

Alright, here's an idea I'd like to implement outside of the current stack: Matchmaking.

We can write a client app that makes those fancy overlays and create a menu driven by Synapse and Cerebrum. On the server side, you need a small farm of heavy servers that can run multiple games at once (though with our low population, we shouldn't need more than maybe 10 servers going at once, and that's if it's popular). The server will also run a game manager that communicates with our client app to put players in games. When enough players are in the lobby, it'll start the game (the server should start as a dedi as soon as the first player requests a game to allow for load times), it'll signal the client app to join the game. The client app then tells Halo to join the server, based on an IP and port supplied. The server itself will need to monitor for players and make sure no one joins in the middle (and kick anyone that does), possibly just limit the players that can join and use a password (also supplied by the server).

How does this all relate to Cerebrum-Synapse? Cerebrum will track all of this and form rankings based on it, much like in H2/H3.

Yeah, Matchmaking could work, but I'm not really sure how popular it would be due to the already small audience.

You would probably need a custom main menu, too, that would support matchmaking. OS could create a new part of the main menu, where you would basically say that you want to join a game. An outside app would probably have to be executed then which would query a list of predetermined stats servers by Modacity (by IP:port). When an empty server is found, it will join all players at once to the server through the direct connect ability Halo has, and then once all players are in the game, a random password will be generated and applied to the server. None of the clients will know of the password, so if you're kicked, you can't come back, and no one can join. At the end of the game, once you reach the postgame, it will have to sit there and then move on to a "standby" map, I guess. When it moves on, all players in the server will be kicked because they don't have the password on join, and the server will be empty for another game.

Way bottom of the list, though.

RobOplawar asked me if we could get a Synapse system for campaigns. I figure, if we put a Synapse implementation into Open Sauce, we can get campaigns to show up, but there wouldn't be much point unless we also found a way to track kills in campaign. I'll go ask for campaign "scoring" in the Open Sauce Ideas thread...

e: I've asked about the possibility of syncing permutations over the network. If armor permutations like in Halo 3 were made a standard part of future maps, this could yield some interesting results that we would want to display on Cerebrum.

Alright guys, time for a bump.

I want to start getting Cerebrum cleared up and get a nice interface modeled after the one used for Halo 3, but to do this I'm going to need web graphics artist, because I'm not one to steal from bungie.

Here's the list of things I want to get done before Synapse is even implemented:

Service Records:
_._- Player view (prerendered Spartans of each color)
_._- Player screenshot (like in H3... only you have to upload your own)
_._- Career stats overview
_._- Recent games
Career Stats
_._- Medal chest (need some basic medals for the ones we know we're implementing)
_._- Weapon preferences (need side views of default weapons and popular customs)
_._- Achievements listing
_._- Ranking/rating history (need some icons here!)
_._- Heatmaps (I'm going to need overviews of popular maps, and we'll have a placeholder)
Game Viewer
_._- Tabs for various things: use a different Javascript method to switch them
_._- Need the right team colors for red and blue, not the pure-red and pure-blue that I have
_..._ (Luckily there aren't any other team colors)
_._- Actual game viewer like with Halo 3?
_..._ We can do it with the data from heatmaps...

e: As I've said at the top of the OP, I'm looking to buy a domain name for the project to host Cerebrum on. Currently I'm thinking about CerebrumCE.net (don't steal it from me :| ), any other ideas? Obviously, the good things like cerebrum.net are taken.

i can probably get you some medal graphics and achievement graphics. got a list of the ones you are for sure putting in?

The FAQs section of the OP has been updated to reflect discussion from the past night. Please note the answers marked Update!, as these have been added to.

We have a near-final XML specification and km00 should be able to release a Synapse dump test app for servers sometime "between now and OS's release."

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Originally Posted by PlasbianX

What stops someone from making a tag, playing like shit, just to grief another clan and drop their stats?

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If clan support was added to Cerebrum, you would most likely register the clan with us, and then have the roster added by the players' PID hashes.

Hell, could even make it so if a player joins a Synapse server with a clan tag that they aren't authorized to use (meaning that their PID hash isn't registered with any clan that uses the tag or name that they have), they get kicked.

this would get me into CE again.

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Originally Posted by Heathen

this would get me into CE again.

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That's the hope.
There are three big things happening in the coming months that will, hopefully, bring back a lot of people to CE. I'd post a thread about this bright future, but that would probably be going too far.
Anyway:
- OpenSauce will make all sorts of things possible and really expand what CE can do.
- There are multiple new campaigns coming out, like SPv2, Bridge (yes, Rob's actually going to finish that), and Thermopylae.
- This, which will bring stat tracking at the same level of Halo 3: you don't see that in other games for the PC very often.

Anyway, I've posted over at HaloMods, HaloMaps and Open Carnage with a short summary and the basic features list, and linked them all back here. Please let me know if you want me to post on another forum, I will take the time to register and post.

Didn't e3po already do this?

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Originally Posted by DEEhunter

Didn't e3po already do this?

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There has yet to be a complete stat tracking application for Halo CE. There are a number of sites out there that can track basic information like kills, but we're recreating the entire Halo 3 game and service record experience.

Also, someone go bump my threads on HaloMaps and HaloMods so people read them, I've never been well respected at HaloMods and no one knows me at HaloMaps. (Links at the bottom of the OP)

E3po did make one. He teamed up with halo Guru with it as well. He used a direct x hook and had it upload stats on his site. But when he made it, it only tracked a user's death. And it was easy to exploit. Hope this one is better.

Alright, here's some theory about something I want to do with Synapse-enabled servers and an extra client app: km00 has already expressed his anger at the complexity of the UI system in Halo, but I still want to see a medal display on the client-side during a game. Using a third-party app that creates a render overlay (like so many apps do) we can display medals by syncing with Synapse server, which can do all the calculations itself. Our client app can receive UDP packets saying what icon to display, and it can even play a sound (might want to not play a sound for the double/triple, killing spree, etc., obviously).

That's just my update for the hour... back to my H3 Swat...

i subscribed to this thread. would also love to beta when the time comes
E: and so this is supposed to track what weapon killed who like halo 3? how will it work with custom weapons or on a cmt map?

Can you download Cerebrum and test it out or is it closed betas?

I have a halo 2 vista server that I host from time to time, I could help test it for you.

The system will also track exactly how a player is killed. The weapon is recorded by its actual tag, so custom weapons can be tracked as well. As long as map makers separate their tags from the default Halo tags (and anyone else's), we'll get accurate recording.

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Originally Posted by supersniper

Can you download Cerebrum and test it out or is it closed betas?

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Cerebrum can not be downloaded, it doesn't work that way. Synapse will be available when it hits beta, but please, post in the right thread and don't derail this one.

Dennis demands that the global ban-list be opt-in. Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by AdmiralBacon

Dennis demands that the global ban-list be opt-in. Thoughts?

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Not going to happen. Anyone on the banlist is absolute scum and we don't want them clogging our stats.

HOWEVER, I had the thought of offering multiple banlists some could subscribe to in addition to the mandatory botters/hackers banlist. I don't know what those other categories would be, but if there is ever any controversal ban criteria, that's what these would be made of.

Also, he called us "anonymous moderators." We are in no way anonymous, and we will maintain the banlist to the highest degree. There will be no subjective bans or bias. Of course, we'll also have a one-shot appeal process. If you don't like it, simple: don't use it, and be out of the features the app offers. This can only benefit the game by cleaning up the mess it is right now.

So this app will ban people you the creator think are scum?

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Originally Posted by Masterz1337

So this app will ban people you the creator think are scum?

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*know

And read the rest of the post.

That's fucking sad.

Please comment further on what is wrong with it. You're not being constructive in your opinion, and in no way is it helping us.

I have demonstrated how it is beneficial to us and the community. It can only positively affect us.

The only ones who should be worried are those who are doing wrong, and will or have been caught.

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Originally Posted by Masterz1337

That's fucking sad.

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We're talking about proven botters and hackers, people who shouldn't be playing the game if that's how they're going to play it. If you don't want to keep these people out of your servers with a ban list we openly manage, then you shouldn't get the benefit of stat tracking and all the other things we offer.

So Masterz, by your logic, Valve is sad for offering VAC.

I would imagine the people behind the moderation aren't going to ban people they don't like just to spite, and they're not going to ban everyone on the first report. If enough complaints come in on one person and there is concrete evidence that they're cheating, then a ban comes along. If someone is a tried and true asshat to people with teamkilling and being an annoying prick, ban. We're not talking about the occasional trole who's bored with the current 2-hour stalemate on Blood Gulch, we mean the dickheads who join, teamkill two people, quit, and repeat.

Stow the fucking vendettas plzkthx.

It's none of your jobs to control this game, nor should any individual be forcing their will on people. You might as well be telling people to convert to your religion or get out of your city. If someone wants to use a globalized ban list you guys make, good for them, give them that option. But you shouldn't be forcing them to ban the people on your list just because they want to use an app, that frankly, you guys didn't create.

I see this is just a way to have more control over people that have nothing to do with you. Leave it up to the server owners to decide if they want to use your banlist.

Edit: I'm not the one with the vendetta. See my sig?

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Originally Posted by Masterz1337

It's none of your jobs to control this game, nor should any individual be forcing their will on people. You might as well be telling people to convert to your religion or get out of your city. If someone wants to use a globalized ban list you guys make, good for them, give them that option. But you shouldn't be forcing them to ban the people on your list just because they want to use an app, that frankly, you guys didn't create.

I see this is just a way to have more control over people that have nothing to do with you. Leave it up to the server owners to decide if they want to use your banlist.

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Excuse me?

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Originally Posted by Masterz1337

It's none of your jobs to control this game, nor should any individual be forcing their will on people. You might as well be telling people to convert to your religion or get out of your city. If someone wants to use a globalized ban list you guys make, good for them, give them that option. But you shouldn't be forcing them to ban the people on your list just because they want to use an app, that frankly, you guys didn't create.

I see this is just a way to have more control over people that have nothing to do with you. Leave it up to the server owners to decide if they want to use your banlist.

Edit: I'm not the one with the vendetta. See my sig?

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Damn, I didn't think it was possible to take this and throw it that far out of proportion. We are doing what we need to do to create a reliable system for gathering stats. At the same time, it is creating a clean, friendly, cheat-free environment that anyone can play in. Server administrators should be thankful they are being provided a tool to lessen the burden on them for maintaining their server. What we are doing is just like PunkBuster or VAC, as p0lar has stated. Shame on them for ridding games of cheaters!~

In no way are we forcing this on anyone. You just came out of nowhere with that. This is a free server app that will be provided by us, and you will be able to use it at your own will. If you don't like something the app offers, then you are free to use another. Comparing this to religion is apples to oranges, especially since you're not even half right about your assumption. A bad analogy is like a leaky screwdriver.

The banlist will have a great affect on us. We won't have inconsistent and unreliable stats due to cheaters and teamkillers. This is for the integrity of the stats system, with a secondhand benefit to server administrators.

There has still been no argument presented as for why it should be optional. Unless someone can draw up a valid concern, this conversation should be over.

:facepalm:

Masterz vs. Jcap: Take 3

also, looking forward to the app, should be very beneficial

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AdmiralBacon

Dennis demands that the global ban-list be opt-in. Thoughts?

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i think so. some people want to host 24/7 banfree kind of servers or just not discriminate. its not like people dont have a choice if you make it opt-in. they can choose whether their servers should use the global banlist or not. imo you would be crippling the awesomeness of your program if you enforced mandatory ban lists

^Thats a valid reason.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AdmiralBacon

Excuse me?

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My mistake, I was thinking of the thread my post was originally with rec0s app.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Donut

i think so. some people want to host 24/7 banfree kind of servers or just not discriminate. its not like people dont have a choice if you make it opt-in. they can choose whether their servers should use the global banlist or not. imo you would be crippling the awesomeness of your program if you enforced mandatory ban lists

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Well if that's the case, then use another person's app. We don't want their player statistics anyway if they are going to run a cesspool for a server. I'm plenty sure the honest player base would greatly appreciate not having to deal with the fear of being aimbotted anymore too, being that all servers collecting stats will be a "green zone" for fair gameplay. We wouldn't have any "awesome" in our app if it wasn't for the secure measures we're putting into it.

It's not like people aren't warned about being cheating. It's a taboo across all games. Why should we be enabling them? They should be discriminated against because they broke the honor code and trust among the community. In fact, I look at anyone in disgust who enables them with servers who allow this to go on freely.

Again, what we are doing is providing a service. We need to run it this way to accomplish our goal. There's really no reason you should be upset unless you're protecting someone who would be affected because of cheating. I guess I should be sorry I don't have the same passion for cheaters and pirates that you do......or not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jcap

We don't want their player statistics anyway if they are going to run a cesspool for a server.

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I agree with a mandatory and universal ban list because of this. It would defeat the purpose of the app to have player stats for possible cheaters.

Masterz, you are blowing this out of proportion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jcap

Well if that's the case, then use another person's app. We don't want their player statistics anyway if they are going to run a cesspool for a server.

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I'm going to stop you right there and say that the quality of a server based soley on what it runs is entirely subjective. I agree that raking stats in from casual pubs is stupid, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're a cesspool. If I want to fuck around, I join a bloodgulch/ctf_2fort/ctf-face server, and I'm happy they're there for me to fuck around in.

What we should do is have two types of global bans: a cheating ban and a courtesy ban. Server operators can choose whether to manage their own banlists (stats off, banfree servers), enforce cheating bans (casual stats, 24/7 stalemate and 100 cap servers), or enforce all bans (competitive stats, competitive/scrim servers). The two stats types are akin to Social and Ranked service records on b.net. I don't really play competitive servers, but I would like to know just how many skulls I've bashed in with the flag or how many times I've died from grenade spam.

At any rate, we aren't forcing this down peoples' throats anyway. It's an app for OS-enabled servers that admins can choose to install if they want stat tracking. It's like SourceMod for Source Dedicated Servers; nice to have, but it's not like anyone is forcing you to install it on your server.

Im thinking the app should have a popup with a question like:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A person on the suggested ban list wants to join the server, will you let him join?

[Yes] [No]

Options:
[]Always ask about this person?
[]Always let this person in?
[]Never let this person in?
(This can be changed through Settings)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just a suggestion

Also, if a person is on the banlist, will they be banned from their own server that they make, both dedi or ingame?

Masters, not blocking cheaters who will taint people's K/D ratio completely defeats the purpose of stats tracking. Any argument against mandatory banlists is completely invalidated by this fact.

End of.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jcap

Well if that's the case, then use another person's app. We don't want their player statistics anyway if they are going to run a cesspool for a server. I'm plenty sure the honest player base would greatly appreciate not having to deal with the fear of being aimbotted anymore too, being that all servers collecting stats will be a "green zone" for fair gameplay. We wouldn't have any "awesome" in our app if it wasn't for the secure measures we're putting into it.

It's not like people aren't warned about being cheating. It's a taboo across all games. Why should we be enabling them? They should be discriminated against because they broke the honor code and trust among the community. In fact, I look at anyone in disgust who enables them with servers who allow this to go on freely.

Again, what we are doing is providing a service. We need to run it this way to accomplish our goal. There's really no reason you should be upset unless you're protecting someone who would be affected because of cheating. I guess I should be sorry I don't have the same passion for cheaters and pirates that you do......or not.

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well bacon asked for people's input, so i gave mine. obviously cheating is bad, but banlists arnt just limited to cheating. i know you guys said yours would be cheaters only, but im saying if a person aimbots one time or get accused of it then banned, and another person has a server and wants the first guy to be able to play on it, its sucks that he has to choose between the awesome server app or his friend. or what if you disabled stat tracking for people who opt out of the ban list? again, you guys are asking for suggestions, and im just giving them. no need to attack me for that

Yeah, why ban them from the game, why not rather ban them from stat tracking, and anything that person does to other players. Such as getting 25 aimbot kills on a player, that player wont get tracked for the deaths caused by the aimbotter.

Because that makes it overly complex. And still, please tell me why they deserve to even play?

Plus, you're still ruining the game for those who play. Even if you null any deaths from the cheater, their kill streak and their position are blown.

well for example: about a month ago, me and a friend were getting aim botted upon in a server. so we tried to find aimbots for 1.08 to aimbot back on the guys with. i couldnt find one and he didnt even know what he was looking for. i mean i realize that we can just leave and go to another server, but aimbotting back would have produced more "luls" for us. tell me you havent ever done anything stupid with your friends.

i see what you mean by making things overly complicated and worrying about tainting K/D ratios, and i agree with you that cheaters would taint those games. let me give another example here: im always paranoid when i play halo because my laptop does this weird thing where the mouse will fly off to the corner of the screen and make my view in halo spin in circles. i usually play in those sniper no shield servers on a map like hang em high. im always worried that people are going to assume im aimbotting if they sight jack me and see that happen. the chances of that happening are probably slim to none, but i still think about that when i play. that mouse thing happens in other games too, and in 3ds max, so i guess its a vista thing or something with my drivers.

tl;dr its your app, do what you want. i was just providing ideas for you
E: oh were you talking to Bo about the overly complex thing? because i was just saying to totally disable stat tracking for servers that dont use the global banlist
E2: and it seems like you dont like cheaters JCap. i dont either, and i totally understand your reasoning. but cant people just not play in the servers that disable global banlists? i myself dont like cheaters, and i dont support them either, but im saying that some people do and would probably like to option to let them play in their server. lord knows why, but thats their choice.

yeah, i mean, they did buy the game to play and have fun. And if cheating is their way of having fun, let them be.
Im pretty sure Microsoft has something to let them play, and that no one can stop them from playing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Advancebo

Yeah, why ban them from the game, why not rather ban them from stat tracking, and anything that person does to other players. Such as getting 25 aimbot kills on a player, that player wont get tracked for the deaths caused by the aimbotter.

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Because, the people in that stats server want to have legitimate stats. Not counting those stats would then require the server app to modify the game code to not count that player as they could be the one who helped that team win according to the game's scores. Or in the case of TKers, they could be the ones who dragged them down. You still have to wait to respawn after someone TKs you know.

The stats feature isn't meant to be game code invasive.

i know im really hammering this in, but what if you TOTALLY disabled stat saving for that whole server if they opt out of the banlist?
E: if people want the features of the app and also want to cheat, then i think they should be able to. if people want stats, then they dont have to play in the servers with cheaters

Two wrongs don't make a right. You're just as wrong as the guy who was doing it to you in the first place.

Identifying cheaters is a hit or miss. There's really no gray area. There is a very dark, bold line that distinguishes someone who bots and someone who doesn't. A random mouse spaz, no matter how bad, is not a sight of an aimbotter. Snapping onto people and leading them through solid geometry is. You'll need more than just a mouse glitch to convict someone.

People can play in any server not running the app. We're not preventing that.


If someone wants to cheat to "have fun":
First, fuck them.
Second, no. We're not letting them play under our rules.

Don't like it? Go somewhere else.

Microsoft can't do anything about it. Really, they can't. It's no different than a regular ban on a private server.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Donut

i know im really hammering this in, but what if you TOTALLY disabled stat saving for that whole server if they opt out of the banlist?
E: if people want the features of the app and also want to cheat, then i think they should be able to. if people want stats, then they dont have to play in the servers with cheaters

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Why use the app?
(this was originally posted from my PSP, see the next page for my full reply)

doesnt this let you have the text based dev commands and all that other stuff? or is this specifically for the stat tracking. now that you say that, i might have this and the other app mixed up. if this is just the stat tracking, then yeah, fuck cheaters.

if this is being implemented into the other app with the text based stuff, then i still stand by my other opinion.

How about an option for server admins to make it so someone on the banlist(s) can stay in the server for X amount of time, but while there they can deal no damage whatsoever?

Probably would be a simple case of (object_set_melee_attack_inhibited <object> <boolean>) and (object_set_ranged_attack_inhibited <object> <boolean>) on the player in question. The banned person sees themselves attacking due to the client-sided nature of the game, yet the server doesn't let them actually attack.

Or maybe let the banned persons spectate. Though I dont know if its possible to not let them spawn.

Alright, I'm so in to this I ran into my basement and grabbed my netbook just so I could type more than a short sentence on the matter.

What is the banlist for? The banlist covers known, proven, and tried aimbotters and TKers, the kind that just join servers to do these things and rarely ever play an honest game. If you botted once a year ago, you're not going to be on this list.

What happens when a banned player is able to join a game? We have to void the entire game. We can't accept parts of game - Jcap explained why. That banned player may have made a massive difference in the game play. We just can't accept it, so the entire game must be voided. And at that, why should we give the botter the luxury of a constant monument to their cheating by providing them with a game overview?

How would you like it if you were in a game where you had gotten hundreds of points on our system, and were in the lead, and then a botter joins in the last few minutes? Your game has just been ruined, all of that effort has gone to waste, and why? Not because a botter joined, but because the server admin refused to accept a ban list.

Synapse is a service that can be provided through other apps. Whether you use Synapse depends on whether you accept the banlist, but only Synapse depends on this. An example of this system is the iPod: To use Genius playlists, i have to allow iTunes to send information on my music to Apple. If I don't accept that, I still get to use my iPod, but I can't use Genius playlists. In this case, Synapse is the Genius Playlists and the iPod is rec0 or SAPP, etc.

It should be fairly simple, if you want to allow cheaters to join your games, you will not be allowed to use our service because the only way we could allow that to happen would be to destroy the experience for players, and we refuse to give botters another weapon.

e: @p0lar: Mindfucks and free kills?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AdmiralBacon

e: @p0lar: Mindfucks and free kills?

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Exactly. Consider my previous idea of splitting the records into "Social" stats for "pub scrub" servers that run things like 24/7 100-Cap CTF Blood Gulch servers where people tend to dick around and have a good time, and "Serious" stats for servers where games are to be played with no fooling around. Social servers could have the option to mindfuck enabled.

yeah ok i thought this was a different app. this is just the stats one. so yeah i support enforced banlists.
there should still be a "serious" stat list and a "social" stat list like polar said though, because if there isnt, people can skew the stats just as badly as cheaters can.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by p0lar_bear

Exactly. Consider my previous idea of splitting the records into "Social" stats for "pub scrub" servers that run things like 24/7 100-Cap CTF Blood Gulch servers where people tend to dick around and have a good time, and "Serious" stats for servers where games are to be played with no fooling around. Social servers could have the option to mindfuck enabled.

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This. Wtf is this mindfuck option thing though?

The mindfuck+free kills would only work in an FFA slayer game. It doesn't prevent them from reaching objects in CTF, Oddball, or KoTH, and it totally destroys a game of team slayer, giving the other team an unfair advantage. Not going to happen.

We already have plans for "Social" vs. "Ranked" matches (though we're not calling the higher level "ranked" because it's misleading: both match types will allow players to accumulate points)

Our structure is as follows:
Social - Matches like those never-ending bloodgulch 24/7 servers. You still get points for your kills here and the games will be fully tracked (including a complete list of all players who were ever on either team).
Hardcore - Matches that are closer to Halo 2 and Halo 3-style gameplay. Ie, 30-minute, first-to-50 team slayer, usually on custom maps. This is the sort of things the Bunghole/Bungnull hosts. Bonus points are awarded for winning, and in general, you get more points for kills/flag captures/time in the hill/etc.
Ranked - These are league matches. The "Ranked" here means they are part of an exclusive tournament ranking system. These games are specially sanctioned by the C-S team (or at least, accepted by us) and subject to specific rules.

Also, as we've said, we have a ranking/rating system that follows the Halo 3 rates but uses a COD-like point collection system. We have the same rates as from Halo 3 (from recruit to general) as well as a personal "ONI SpecOps" ranking for Cerebrum-Synapse developers (we still have our regular rating, but this is displayed instead, it's simply an indicator that we're developers of the system).

Medals: I'm working on a list of all the medals will be looking into. Most of these are fairly simple and will require only looking at the information we are given by Synapse. Others may require us to look deeper and expand the data provided.

Multi-Kills

• Double Kill - Kill 2 opponents within 4 seconds
• Triple Kill - Kill a third opponent within 4 seconds
• Overkill - 4
• Killtacular - 5
• Killtrocity - 6
• Killimanjaro - 7
• Killtastrophe - 8
• Killpocalypse - 9
• Killionaire - 10

Sprees

• Killing Spree - 5 without dying
• Killing Frenzy - 10 without dying
• Running Riot - 15
• Rampage - 20
• Untouchable - 25
• Invincible - 30

(not done with this)

No I say keep the old halo medal or spree ones. Like how killtacular is for 4 kills instead of 5. IDk we could be creative and make up our own medal list.

Also another feature would be to track the hog/shee kills you kow for those hog noobs ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by supersniper

No I say keep the old halo medal or spree ones. Like how killtacular is for 4 kills instead of 5. IDk we could be creative and make up our own medal list.

Also another feature would be to track the hog/shee kills you kow for those hog noobs ;)

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We'll pretty much have all of the Halo 3 medals which we can actually tracker. Splatter sprees of 5 and 10 will be present as well..
I guess we should probably keep the Halo 1 names, I didn't know they were different (I don't pay attention)

I think a combination between Halo 2 and Halo 3's killing spree medals would be good. Halo 2 still had 4 as a killtacular, but they didn't go higher than 7 (killimanjaro). We could also just drop names all together (it's not like you'll see them anyway), and just give medals for the number of consecutive kills.

Join #cerebrum@irc.phpwnage.com some time today or tomorrow and we'll discuss it more actively.

Time to talk about Modacity integration, like should we put this in the upper right of each post? Just on player profiles? Not at all?

e: You can follow Cerebrum-Synapse on Twitter. Eventually, it'll become a bot and say when Ranked matches have ended and post scores and such.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AdmiralBacon

The mindfuck+free kills would only work in an FFA slayer game. It doesn't prevent them from reaching objects in CTF, Oddball, or KoTH, and it totally destroys a game of team slayer, giving the other team an unfair advantage. Not going to happen.

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Which is why I suggested enabling the option for "Social" servers only, where everything is made up and the points don't matter.

That's right, the points are just like reasonings for a circle jerk not being gay. Completely useless.

While I appreciate the Whose Line reference, Jcap and I have discussed awarding points for Social matches, though far less than Hardcore and Ranked.

Well then, how about if it's turned on, stats are not collected?

I'm just pushing for fucking back with cheaters on a whole new level. :q:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by p0lar_bear

Well then, how about if it's turned on, stats are not collected?

I'm just pushing for fucking back with cheaters on a whole new level. :q:

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We'll think about it, but there will be a big warning next to it in the default config file, ie:
;; Allow botters on the global ban list to join, but screw with them
;; WARNING: YOUR STATS WILL NOT BE COLLECTED WITH THIS OPTION ENABLED
;; YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED
; screw_with_botters=true

Now how will they be banned, through CD key? what aobut all that are invalid CD keys going to be rejected, are you going to accept 1.00 client or just forget about teh pirating as a whole, (because I know Jcap is strongly against it)

This will support 1.08 only. All other versions of Halo are obsolete.

Bans will be handled just like they are now - CD key hash. No matter how many names you use, your specific copy of Halo will be banned from all supported servers for the duration of your ban which could range anywhere from two weeks to permanent, depending on the offense.

Illegally obtained CD keys will be banned as well. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever a pirated copy should be permitted to play, especially being that the stats would be collected from several players.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by supersniper

Now how will they be banned, through CD key? what aobut all that are invalid CD keys going to be rejected, are you going to accept 1.00 client or just forget about teh pirating as a whole, (because I know Jcap is strongly against it)

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wut wut

We're only supporting the newest release.

Oh, already addressed.

alright. Cool, that would make sense.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AdmiralBacon

wut wut

We're only supporting the newest release.

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Thing is, with this kind of new stuff here, it could be a nice incentive for them to move up and unify the community as a whole on the current update, and with the cd hash checking they will have no reason to move up.

They don't deserve it jack shit.

There's every reason to "move up" if you have a legal copy of the game. If not, we don't miss you. If anything, this just gives anyone who pirated the game a reason to buy it.